258: Questioning Authority: Max Borders’ Vision for Expats

Max Borders interviewed by Mikkel Thorup on The Expat Money Show

Today’s guest is Max Borders, author of the book Underthrow: How Jefferson’s Dangerous Idea Will Spark a New Revolution

Max has been an outspoken supporter of decentralized systems and individual freedom and has authored four books deeply exploring humanity’s movement toward societies of decentralized governance.

Today, Max joins the show to explain his radical idea to “underthrow” the government through what he calls “subversive innovation.” 



  • Listen to Max describe how he followed his yearning to use creativity and entrepreneurship to affect societal change to write about the topic of decentralization.
  • Hear Max explain how he hopes to inspire people to underthrow the government, using what he refers to as “subversive innovation” 
  • Max and I discuss how many libertarians often find themselves stuck thinking about policy while neglecting to make the needed changes in their own lives
  • Tune in to hear Max’s breakdown of the 3 options for affecting change in society and which he feels is superior
  • Listen to Max describe how governments have evolved from sovereign entities into an “extended politburo” run by government and corporate interests. 
  • Learn about Max’s “Constitution of Consent” contest and how he aims for it to inspire real-life experiments in decentralized self-governance.
  • Hear Max lay out his ideas of just how we can navigate this era of unreason and untruth by implementing the ideas he discusses. 



256: Are Self-Governing Cities Our Chance At Freedom?

222: Best Of Special Economic Zones And Private Cities

221: What The World Can Expect In 2023 – Ron Paul



Head to Underthrow.org to find Max’s writing and the Constitution of Consent contest

Follow Max Borders on Twitter



I had a blast talking to Max about his ideas, and I simply love that his focus is all about how to make them work in the real world, not simply in hypothetical fantasyland. As I often discuss, far too many great, freedom-loving libertarians that I run into wind up stuck in the realms of philosophy and policy. 

This program and my work as an expat consultant are all about taking actionable steps to achieve more liberty for yourself and your family, and I’m glad that Max’s ideas fall right in line with that. I hope all enjoyed this conversation as much as I did!

About The Host, Mikkel Thorup

Mikkel Thorup; the host of The Expat Money Show, has 20+ years in continual travel around the world, visiting more than 100 countries including Colombia, North Korea, Zimbabwe and Iran.

His goal now is to help Expats just like you to generate additional streams of income, eliminate your tax bill, and take advantage of offshore structures so you can travel the world freely and never have to worry about money again.

Follow Mikkel Thorup on Social Media:


  1. Rob Witty on 08/24/2023 at 5:08 AM

    Excellent information, great discussion.

    • Mikkel Thorup on 08/31/2023 at 1:13 AM

      Thanks so much!

  2. Marc de Piolenc on 08/28/2023 at 7:41 PM

    The problem with the notion that moving to a particular country consists of “consent” to that country’s system assumes that the system will not change. But of course, it does change. That is the principal difference between contracts and constitutions.

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